Grant Writing and Philanthropy: Systemic Issues and Inefficiencies

🔥 Get ready for some serious sizzle on Talking Shizzle with Taylor Shanklin and Will Novelli from Creative Shizzle! 🔥In this episode, we're diving deep into the world of grant writing with the incredible Patrice Schumate, founder of A Village for Good. Patrice is on a mission to revolutionize the grant field and provide affordable solutions and unwavering support to small and grassroots nonprofits.

💡 Join us as Patrice spills the tea on the grant writing process and how she's shaking things up. She's had enough of the inefficiencies, the lack of standardization, and those pesky character limits that waste precious time. Patrice is here to bridge the gaps and make a real impact!

💪 Patrice believes that collaboration is key, and she's bringing small nonprofits together with passionate grant writers. It's all about affordability and creating a support system that empowers everyone involved. Together, they're tackling the grant world like never before! 💼 But that's not all! Patrice knows that economic and societal issues run deep, and it's time to confront them head-on. She's calling on each and every one of us to take a stand and be a part of positive change. Let's address the root causes and make a lasting impact! Tune in as the Talking Shizzle Team and Patrice shares the challenges faced by grant writers, especially those from marginalized communities, plus so much more like;

📌 The gaps in the market for small nonprofits and grant writers

📌 The systemic issues with philanthropy and grant writing

📌 The profession of grant writing and its challenges

📌 The inefficiencies of the government grant application process

📌 The challenges faced by small community-based organizations

📌 Ideas for how social good can work better in our society

📌 Gatekeeping in the grant writing industry

📌 Advocating within the grant writing community

📌 Tips for getting into grant writing

🎧 So, grab your headphones and get ready for a mind-blowing episode! Listen to "Talking Shizzle" to unlock Patrice Schumate's grant writing expertise and ignite your fundraising goals! 🔥🔥

Connect with Patrice Schumate on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrice-shumate/ 

Explore A Village for Good and access their incredible resource guide at: https://www.avillageforgood.com/

Thanks for tuning in to Talking Shizzle! Remember to subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with your fellow changemakers! ✨

Transcript

Taylor Shanklin  0:03  
Hey, hey, hey, talking shizzle listeners. You know, it's always been important for me to align our business with other companies and individuals who share our values, especially those who share a deep commitment to serving nonprofits and social impact. So for that reason, I'm super excited to announce our very first season to sponsor Kyla Kyla is a fundraising and donor management CRM that is built specifically for nonprofits by nonprofit professionals. These folks really get it. Their mission is to empower nonprofits to deepen relationships, retain donors, and raise more for their cause. A several of our clients and partners use Keela and have continued to be impressed by just how easy Keela is to use, how affordable it is, and most importantly, the results they see using the platform. The Keila team is also phenomenal to work with. They are super friendly guys, and they have a continuous commitment to equity and inclusion. Now, go check them out. We got a special offer for you as Season Two sponsor of the talking shows or podcasts. Keila is offering our listeners and community 40% off their first year subscription tequila 40% You guys. That is a lot of shizzle. Think about all the other shizzle you can get done by saving that money on your nonprofit CRM. Plus, if you have under 250 records, you can get access to the keyless starter program for free. So if you are interested in learning more and booking a demo, go to keilah.co/partners/creative das shizzle that is ke l a.co. Forward slash partners forward slash create Tim ash shizzle.

Hey, hey, all you lovely people out there. You've got a lot going on in your day with big dreams and big goals for your world. Are you ready to talk some shizzle and learn some shizzle from leading entrepreneurs, changemakers coaches and overall interesting people who like to shake things up. I'm your host Taylor Shanklin, CEO and founder of creative shizzle and I am stoked to bring you a fresh episode of talking chisel today. This show is all about helping you think differently so that you can grow. Talking chisel is brought to you by our team at Creative shizzle where we help businesses, entrepreneurs, and social good innovators make amazing marketing shizzle happen. Check us out on the web at Creative shizzle.com Now, let's talk some shizzle

All right, welcome. Welcome to a new and fresh sizzling talking shizzle What's up party peeps hope you're having a great day. We are here today with Patrice Shumate, the founder of a village for good what is up, Patrice, how are you doing today?

Patrice Shumate  3:18  
A today's Okay, today's it Okay, today,

Taylor Shanklin  3:21  
we're just talking about surviving today. And you SNA you're going to try to survive may that's your motto, I'm going to survive 2023. Hopefully, we'll maybe get out of this one alive. Well, I'm happy to have you on the show. Today, we're going to talk about grants and grant writing and finding money that if you're a nonprofit or a small business, you can make all of your shizzle happen with that money. So check us off, tell us a little bit more just about your background, who you are and what you are about.

Patrice Shumate  3:55  
I am a social worker, that's always the thing that comes to my mind first, that's what I spent the most money paying to become in this world. I did social work, direct work for many, many, many years. But then I knew this early on. I'm not a Mac micro thinker. I'm not a therapist, I'm not a counselor, I never wanted to be I like to think of systems. And I like to think of how things work. And I just happen to come from a couple of parents that dedicated their lives to doing good things in the world. So I didn't have much of a choice there. But I was playing around for a long time with the idea of you know, what does consulting look like? What does contract look look like is not, you know, just a social worker coming in and doing case management and programs and these sorts of things. And a series of opportunities kind of came along. And I became a great writer then. And I did that for a bit until I realized you know what? Sounds kind of off here. There's some gaps going on for small organizations for people who want to get into the grant field. And I started looking really closely at what those gaps are to figure out If I can help fill them. So a village for good came about as a reaction to not enough accessibility for small and grassroots nonprofits and not a very clear path for people who want to be grant writers, it's not a profession that you go to school for necessarily, and people getting into it really struggle, there's not a clear way to make your way through it. So the goal is to bring those two groups together to work together and grow together as affordably as we can make it with as much support and also really calling out the not so great stuff that goes on in philanthropy and grant writing in the nonprofit space, because it should change. There's a lot of things that should change, and it's okay for us to talk about them.

Taylor Shanklin  5:44  
What are some of those things that should change is there like one thing that really stands out to you that you think, just is fundamentally flawed?

Patrice Shumate  5:54  
You know, it's been a really bizarre trip to this point, you know, recognizing, okay, so this is work that I do, as a living, this is work that a lot of people do as a living. And most of us get into it, because we want to do something good. We want to leave something better than we found it and we want to help other people through that process. And we're a profession that is amazing at finding solutions to symptomatic problems. Oh, it's hard to do this, let's create a solution to do that, oh, it's hard to find vendors, let's create a solution, oh, it's hard to drop this, let's create a solution rather than thinking, Okay, wait, how come? It takes so much time and cost so much money to find people that have obscene amounts of wealth, who are willing to give some of that wealth to their community? And there's a small group of consultants in my local community who started talking and meeting and figuring out, okay, what can we do in our community to bring more of this to light and figure out what are some solutions to it, and one of them is looking into the cost of philanthropy. So when we think about grant funds, where those funds come from, and how they get to the people that are doing work on the ground level, there's different avenues. So for people who aren't familiar with grants, right, you can do government grants and contracts that can be federal, state, local government kinds of things. And those are all very different levels, very different tiers, very different processes, for the most part. And then there's private funds, through corporations through family foundations through trusts, and endowments, and donor advised funds. And most of that money comes from, generally speaking historically, so things are changing. But historically, that money has come from individuals or groups that have literally obscene amounts of money, they don't know what to do with it. And there's some tax incentives for them to put it over here in this fund, because they use it for charitable purposes. But our guidelines and our laws regulating that are so terrible. And for folks that aren't familiar with how that money kind of sits and what happens with it. People that have family foundations, for example, that is untaxed Money, money that's not going into their communities through taxes, they only have to pay out 5% of their assets every year, and they can invest the rest of it. And now, donor advised funds, which is a totally different thing, people are really going on about it right now. They can give some of that money to donor advised funds that counts are there 5% of the money that goes into donor advised funds, there are no regulations for that. It just sits there, it can sit there in perpetuity, never going into their communities. And right now there's about a trillion dollars sitting in those kinds of funds that aren't going back into their community. Meanwhile, grant writers are over here, working and working and working and finding solutions to get their clients whatever happens to be available. And the cost of that is really ridiculous, in my opinion. So that's just laying it out there. I don't know if I expected to hit it this hard right away. But well,

Taylor Shanklin  8:56  
you maybe opened up a can of worms, or two or five. That's actually a really interesting perspective that, to be honest, I don't know a lot about in terms like in that area of philanthropy. I know that it exists. I know. It's a whole nother ballgame, the world that we sit in. We're doing digital marketing, and like thinking more about marketing and fundraising and kind of broad scale. So it's interesting to hear about this and learn about some of the systemic issues with there's a lot of wealth, and it's supposed to be allocated for going back into the community, but it's not. And so this whole layer of grant writing and the grant writing profession exists. Let's get into that. Let's start talking a little bit more about that in depth. What are some of the common things that grant writers run into that are maybe issues that you are maybe looking to solve with your business and your community?

Patrice Shumate  9:55  
Yeah, grant writing in and of itself is really a fairly inefficient part. process. And when we're just starting on the simplest level, we're not thinking about the systemic inequities, the really ridiculous wealth distribution that goes into it. But when we think about process itself, I might write 60 grants for a client in a year. And each one of those applications is different from the next application. Because it can be there is no standardization. Throughout it, any buddy with the money can create whatever process they want to have access to that money. And finding those people figuring out if there's alignment in their priorities, to the organization's mission, understanding all of the eligibility requirements, all of the submission requirements, all of the required documentation, and and then you throw in character limits, character limits, should just go away, like I understand, on the grantmaking side, not wanting to get really inconsistent things that are not comparable when they're trying to think about who they're going to give these funds to. But I could have five applications sitting in front of me, and all of them can be asking about the organization's history, and I can have a dif different character limit for answering that question for every single one of them. That takes time to edit and change and tweak every single time you do it. And it does doesn't have to like me, being able to stop exactly at 500 characters rather than 510 characters doesn't actually change my answer, it doesn't help you know me any better. But this is what we're working in. And it's the things that we do for our clients or for people who are working on staff in nonprofit organization, the most amount of our time goes to constantly looking for what opportunities are out there, what funders are out there. And then following all have their submission criteria, not really sharing who we are and what we're doing. And it's an interesting thing, because we're a profession that's built on reacting and responding to what somebody or something else wants. And at any point, a large enough group of funders say, You know what, we don't want to read applications anymore. That's kind of boring, maybe we want you to send in a video of what you do, then our profession completely changes.

Taylor Shanklin  12:15  
Have I gotta say, like, the video idea. I'd much rather make that as an applicant. I agree the process of writing a grant, from everyone who I've ever known who's been a grant writer, when they tell me about that. I just throw up in my mouth a little bit. Yes, I just say that, because it sounds terrible. Like what you're saying, it's like it's inconsistent. It's kind of whatever gets put out there in terms of like, what the application is, from that particular funder. It's different as whatever they decided to be. Is that kind of what you're saying, is that correct?

Patrice Shumate  12:53  
Yeah, all of it is based on their own particular preference. And of course, as technology changes, many use different platforms for their grant making. So different portals that we then get into and complete things to be submitted for them to have that on the back end and have whatever they need. And so there could be a lot of work and advocacy done on the folks who are making those portals to make this a better process, like don't give them, you know, they can start to help standardize this process a little bit more. And that's mostly talking about the private funds over here doing that kind of thing. If you're getting into government grants and contracts, it's very different. I'm in the middle of one right now with an organization, it's local government that's using ARPA funds, right, that have trickled down from the federal government. And they have different identified priorities in the community. And so this is kind of a new, they're called nofas, no notification of Funding Availability, it's sort of a new one they wrote specifically for this. And it took us a few weeks, with many different community partners to even break down the NOFA, the like, at some page NOFA of the requirements, and we ended up creating an entire workbook of one sheet is this is what's required for you to be eligible to even consider going for this money in order to do did you do check yes or no? Right. And then the middle section, this is what's required for you to submit all of the things that have to go in. And then this is what's required of you the terms and conditions after the fact if you do get the money, because a lot of people were trying to go for it. But nobody was really clear on what was required. And so we had to break everything down for people like oh, no, I can't do that. Most people can't. So in that alone, you know, they were the government itself is trying to create more accessibility for smaller community based organizations, but it really doesn't work right. There's just too small to support that kind of requirement. They don't have the capacity for the post award stuff. And so much of the work I do is working with the people that are left out of all the opportunities

Taylor Shanklin  14:54  
Yeah, well in so many organizations are truly are tiny mom and pop shops like That's a lot of the ones that I speak with, like when we're giving webinars when we're at conferences, or we're kind of out in the field. So many, like you said, they don't have the capacity to, to sort this out. So you and I were talking a little bit offline. And you said, most grant funded programs are tackling symptoms, not root causes. Tell us what you mean by that.

Patrice Shumate  15:27  
I feel like, just because you have a lot of money, and you want it to go toward charitable purposes doesn't mean you know what you're talking about. And just because you create a nonprofit, and have a good idea of something for to your community, doesn't mean you know what you're talking about. And we genuinely don't need more nonprofits in our country, we need more people who know what they're talking about. And it's hard. And it's, these are really complex, complicated, interwoven issues that we're dealing with. And I was doing some reviewing some grant reviewing for a different government fund not too long ago. And so I'm reading through people's applications that have been in the community for decades. And they're asking for millions of dollars to continue the work they're doing. And they're large size organizations that are doing things about us homelessness, and mental health, and all of these really important topics. And these are people who know how to write grant applications, right? So the research is there, the evidence is there, the support is there, all of the things are laid out well in this application. But when you start to think about, okay, so what I'm hearing and all of these applications is you've been here for decades, this is the work you're doing. This is why it's needed. And the data you're showing me shows that we haven't made many changes in decades. So we're still doing this kind of work. But the community we're working for, still has the same problems that did 40 years ago, more, probably at this point. So when I'm working with organizations, it takes a minute for them to really understand if the organization they're building, and the services they're trying to do. Are you trying to tackle a symptom today, because sometimes we do, right, like people need to eat today. But we also need people who are trying to figure out why people today don't have enough food, and how we can make sure in a couple of decades, it's just not something we're talking about anymore. And it's an I don't think it's an easy mental shift for many of us to make, because we can see homelessness is a struggle. But it takes a lot more effort for us to dig in and say, Well, why does it exist? What's perpetuating it? What is all of our responsibility as society to figure out what's going on, rather than just washing your hands of it? And

Taylor Shanklin  17:54  
now there's no profits, they figure it out? It'll be fine. You must have some ideas around better ways to do it. Do you have some thoughts on like, how do we solution this problem? I mean, I've heard other people in the space talk about this too. And I agree, it doesn't just mean like slap another nonprofit organization together. And then you're right, then you have all these little organizations kind of working in silos. So what are some ideas that you have for how, let's just call it social good, how it could work better in our society?

Patrice Shumate  18:28  
Well, listen to the people that do have the ideas, I don't comprehend a lot of these things on the extreme scale that they're on, you have to have a really clear historical understanding of our country. And now we've come to this point, you have to have a really good understanding of how economics work, how capitalism plays, it should do all of these things, right? Like this is deep, deep stuff. And it's deeply rooted in who we are, as a country, as a society, and then individually into each of us, depending on like where we came from. And as a social worker, I've worked in a lot of settings, I've worked with a lot of people that are not like me, that do not have the background that I had growing up. And it creates a perspective of your world, that is really easy to miss, when we get super comfy and settled in our little bubbles. And it's really uncomfortable. And we don't tend to want to be uncomfortable. So we avoid the things that create that discomfort. But the reality is, if we're not all in some capacity, working on this together, we're just going to be this way forever. They're just going to be issues. They're going to be problematic things in our society, that affect largely certain populations, and not so much other populations. And so some of it just comes down to if you're one of the populations that's not affected by those problems, or you think you're not, there is some amount of responsibility you can explore and figuring out your role in it. Maybe you're not a social worker, maybe you're not a grant writer, maybe you Have a business. Okay, cool. Have your business but maybe there can be a little bit of impact you build into your business model? Or maybe you can make sure the business you have isn't actually causing harm? Or how can we better understand everything around us without being completely overwhelmed by it all. And I know that I struggle with that, right? Like, recycling, right? We know we have to take care of our planet, and we're not doing a very good job of that. So I'll recycle some things. But the more you learn about it, and understand you think, Okay, well, that's not enough. So then I compost or whatever, well, that's not enough, then you get to this point, you're like, do I need to go live in a yurt somewhere and like hand, weave my own clothes, because it feels that way, and it's heavy. But there really is truth to if all of us are doing just a little bit. And nobody's intentionally being left out. Big stuff can happen. It's just we've never really gotten to that point as a country to figure out what can happen if we're all doing a little bit. Because there have always been people left out. And there have always been people left out on purpose. And while I know those things aren't necessarily going to change overnight, I think it can very simply start with, know who you are, know where you come from, and understand the influences that were a part of how you came from that, taken some unlearning on my part to be like, Hey, I'm a good white lady, right? Like, I'm a social worker, I'm doing good stuff in the world. And it wasn't until I started to learn more about the industrial, the nonprofit industrial complex. And I'm like, the good things I've been doing, really just kind of make people feel more comfortable in the bad places they're in, rather than doing something to fix the bad places. And I don't have solutions. But there are a lot of people that knew a lot more than I do, that are talking about these things. And they've been talking about them for a long time. So part of my goal is just to share what they're talking about. So that more of us can be talking about them together.

Taylor Shanklin  22:02  
Just me I don't have it either. Other people who know a lot more about history, economics, everything like that. But I do think that there's a place for each of us within our own communities and or like you said, it's business, especially those of us who are focused on social good and our business is, how can we each kind of collectively take a baby step towards the better good, by doing good, even just within our small circle that we're in, right, kind of the ripple effects that can happen when each of us is focused on that. And the reality is that not everybody in this world is going to get in on the good. That's just the truth. That's just the way of the world that's just humanity. It's funny that you mentioned like going down to the point kind of, in your mind where you're like, Okay, then I'm here, and I'm here that I'm in the yurt, we wear my own clothes. And I'm like, I've taken my place myself to that space before to that I'm like, yeah, now. But the more we can do to help share the resources, people who are very good at solving the larger systemic issues, and then us doing what we can do within our small circles of influence. And think, the better we continue to be.

Will Novelli  23:18  
I always think back to our guests who talked about urban farming, how doing that small part was helpful to their community. But then I also think about the recycling we talked about in in that one too, which was a very another heavy conversation. 

Patrice Shumate  23:34  
My husband, my husband is an intense he gets nervous when we're in like social settings, or neighborhood things or whatever. And he's like, you can't talk about that stuff. And I'm like, You know what, I'm gonna talk about that stuff. And I had I had a friend recently, she's like, you know, some of what we were talking about, like, he's just, you're really smart about certain things. I'm like, Yeah, but people don't really want to talk about poverty at a party, right? Like you don't want to talk about, you will often talk about these things.

Taylor Shanklin  24:02  
I mean, you, you could have a party where you talk about poverty, and just frame it that way and invite people who do what I come to talk about, it might not be a party. But it is a little upsetting, though, that like if you want to talk about real things like that, that's another thing that's I think, just a little bit need some work in our society with like being able to broach those conversations and not be like, totally comfortable. Get comfortable in the uncomfortable if you want to see solutions for things.

Patrice Shumate  24:34  
Yeah, well, and for many of us, there's an element of underlying guilt and shame that comes with those conversations, especially those of us that are in these dominant groups. And spoiler alert, grant writing is mostly white women, mostly white women, trying to connect the dots to funds of money held mostly by white men. And then we're talking about these organizations. These graph Fruits, ground level organizations that are led by people of color or other marginalized communities. And of course, those dots don't add up, right? Like, there's some serious gatekeeping going on in so many areas. And if we're not willing to just even at the slightest, late, widely recognized that we're in a world of hurt.

Taylor Shanklin  25:20  
Yeah, yeah, I agree. But we had on a couple of other guests on a recent episode, Renee and Crystal who, if you're interested, they've got really good tips on kind of like, they work a lot with nonprofit boards around equity and inclusion, they're very good at speaking about, like how to bring these conversations into the forefront, you know, how to surface these things. And so check that out, if you're interested. They're always a wealth of knowledge around like, how to broach the subject on those types of things.

Patrice Shumate  25:53  
People are really nervous, there's a lot of conversations in the grant world, because of all the AI stuff coming out, like our job is going to be obsolete. And I'm like, I don't know. I mean, there is someone that's designing a platform for us to grant writers to use AI with our own content to make it more efficient and streamline the application process, which is fascinating to me. But again, I think most of it boils down to the biggest shifts in our profession are going to come from the desires and whims of the people that are holding the resources and the money, not so much. The tech directly related to the work we do, but I think technology is absolutely going to, it's gonna be an interesting decade.

Taylor Shanklin  26:32  
Yeah, that will be interesting. It'll and power but it net isn't necessarily going to change the reactionary nature of you put this out, okay, I'll work towards your standards, if gotta flip the whole system on its head a little bit.

Patrice Shumate  26:48  
That's the thing. You know, I think grant writers particularly have this amazing opportunity, even if we're not yelling things from, you know, the rooftops to at least advocate within our own, really communities, or just depending on how broad their work goes. But we're the ones that know the research on the needs of the community. We're the ones that know, the research on the evidence of things that work for those types of populations. We're the ones that are writing all of this stuff on a regular basis. And for those of us especially, that aren't like in the organization that are sort of step back, we don't have the same kind of skin in the game. And we shouldn't be talking to funders, like we should be creating these bridges of communication of being like, Listen, your application was whack, you know, like, no bueno. That's the wrong way to do this. When I'm asking for $5,000. And it's a 15 page application, someone needs to be telling you, you got your messages wrong.

Taylor Shanklin  27:45  
Alright, so if somebody wants to get into grant writing, and they're listening to this, they might run the other way. But if they don't, what's something that they can do to get going with grant writing?

Patrice Shumate  27:57  
You know, that's a really interesting question. There isn't like a clear answer to that. Because, again, it's a profession that comes from people from really diverse backgrounds. So you have people who have backgrounds in writing, you have people who have backgrounds, in some sort of nonprofit management, you have all of these different places, none of us are really kind of taught the same thing. And it's sort of a profession that you learn as you go. And that's what I'm finding with the people I'm working with who are getting into the profession is and also finding, there are a number of educational institutions that have grant writing courses that are not good and are not preparing people for what it's going to take to get into the field. But if you are interested, like know your skills, know where your skills are, if you're a great writer, then figure out if you are good at project management, because bringing things together for an application from a client or within an organization is tricky. There's a lot of parts, and there's a lot of people who hold that information you have to get it from and time management, because it's other people's deadlines you're working on. And really, I think grant writers need to have a great sense of how does impact work, what really creates change, because we're helping you communicate that to somebody or somebody's, and a lot of organizations struggle with that. So understanding why your programs are designed the way they are, what that design means in terms of evaluation that's required to see if that's making a difference. Understanding how boards work is really important structures of nonprofits, understanding budgets and financial requirements, and all these sorts of things go into our ability to help lead nonprofits through these processes, because you're asked for all those kinds of things. So if you are seller in one place or the other, just know you're gonna have to get stellar in the other places too, because it's a whole package kind of deal.

Taylor Shanklin  29:48  
Alright, well, people want to find you and learn more about a village for good and leverage some of your research your resources, what's the best way to do that and

Patrice Shumate  29:59  
how can people find to connect with you, again go to a village for good.com. And can reach me through the website, there's a couple of different places they can get to me, there's also a resource guide that you can sign up for on our resources section that has tons of nonprofit resources, not just grant writing, but lots of other ones that I really hope people take advantage of. Because there's lots of really wonderful people do a good stuff on there. And yeah, just go to the website. And there's different ways you can get a hold of me from there.

Taylor Shanklin  30:28  
I didn't know where this was gonna go today, Patrice went around and different pathways. And we found some little nuggets that I really enjoyed this, and I learned a lot. So thank you, thank you for sharing your thoughts and your expertise, and keeping the good going and the grant writing world.

Patrice Shumate  30:47  
Well, and that's not to say, right, like, there's some ugly stuff out there. But there is also so many people doing really, really amazing things. And if people really have a desire and know that there's a need in their community and want to start a nonprofit, let's talk it through, maybe we can find someone who's already started one that you can add on to or there's some other solutions. But honestly, I work with small and newer organizations to help them understand this process. And there's so much time and money lost in those first few years even figuring out if what you're doing needs to happen. So I don't want you to waste your time or money. Let's talk about it. There's a not so fun statistic that's talking about, you know, in the first five years, not a wonderful percentage of nonprofits make it and certainly not in 10 years. And so I know what kinds of personal resources go into that process that people put into it because their heart and their soul and their passion is into it. And there are other avenues. There's other ways we don't have to be a culture that's like you either create a business for to make a profit or you create a nonprofit because you want to do something good in your community. Those things need to melt together much more than we let them

Taylor Shanklin  31:53  
100% All right. Well, this has been a Sicilian episode about some grant shizzle thank you guys for tuning in today. We hope you enjoyed it and learn something new. We'll see you next time. Well, hey there. That was fun. I love how much mind blowing and mind opening shizzle our guests bring to us with every episode. We hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as we did. Make sure you hit that subscribe button on your favorite podcast player so that you don't miss a beat of the talking shizzle podcast. And if you're listening on Apple, be sure to let us know what you thought and leave us a review. We'd love to hear from our listeners so that we can bring you all the good juicy Business Growth shizzle that you would like to hear about. Get in touch with us and follow along at Creative shizzle.com or email us at podcast at Creative shizzle.com Until next time, keep making your shizzle happen

Transcribed by https://otter.ai